What I am loosing ? -- Part 2

This is a sequel to my last post.
jolk, I must thank you for sending me that discussion link on PagalGuy forums.

I was not following pagalguy forums. But after going through the thread I realized that the discussions are from the "Indian Applicant's Perspective" unlike BusinessWeek and TestMagic Forums. So in the expense and ROI matters, it particularly helped.

Here is the link to discussion on PagalGuy :

PagalGuy - US MBA- Expense / ROI

I'm here summarizing few things here :

1) I have not taken into account the cost of opportunity. If I continue to be in job instead of MBA, I would add $50,000 more (2 yrs). This is kind of notional loss. Since I am earning in India, I would not consider this as a big loss.

2)Is it worth doing your MBA from top 15-20 schools ? YES.
This is based on two assumptions.
-- You get job in the US. (Wot I mean here is H1..Companies are willing to hire but the H1 Cap is real problem)
-- You work in Investment Banking / Management Consulting

IB is one of the options I am strongly considering. I dont mind working in US for 4-5 years.

3) Wot is the ROI ?
With a decent lifestyle in US , I can recover money in 4-6 years.

We will have to take decision based on two factors :
1) Is it possible to get loan for international student of amount $90K or so. ? With or Without co-signer ?
2) H1B situation and changes in the Immigration Reform bill.

Economic theory suggests that economic recession can't exist in all parts of the world at the same time.
US top 20 programs are highly regarded all over the world.I believe even if one can't get job in US today may be 1-2 years later he can go back when economy improves. Till that time, one can choose to work in some other country.

What I am loosing ? (Understanding the expenses involved for MBA)

Expenses involved and ROI are the very important factors that must be considered very early in the application process. I consider this important because if I can not manage the finances for the university all efforts of applying are in vein.

I can manage overall from US$50,000 from my earning and Family funds.

Costs for the universities I have shortlisted :
1)NYU - Stern
Cost of Attendance for 1 year is given on the website as : $71,224
NYU Costs

The approximate total cost of 21 months program will come to $150,000 including all hidden costs.

The maximum loan that can be taken from Citi-Assist with US Citizen as co-signer is $225,000.

Without a co-signer, I can borrow only $40,000 (under CitiAssist Global Program)
Citi Assist- Global Program loan terms

2) U of VA - Darden
Total overall cost : $65,929
So the expenses will be lesser than NYU but will be in similar range
Darden Costs

Here also the total expense goes in the range of $130,000 - $140,000
Loan website: Gate Loan
Here, I could not find the maximum amount that international student can borrow.

3) UNC- Chapel Hill
This is the costliest. $59,000 in tuition and $20,000 is living and other expenses per year. Total costs are in the range : $150,000 - $ 170,000
Loan is available to cover all the costs

UNC Costs

How can I afford these universities ? We also have to consider the current H1B problems. Risk of getting job in US is alot.... Is it worth ??

Now good news I can afford universities in Singapore.

4) NUS Singapore

S$40,000 is the approximate total expense involved..
I can manage this without much head ache.

I am rethinking about ISB as I believe 2 year program is more appropriate for me.
I want a program with internship opportunities, more electives, possibly exchange programs etc.

But mostly all programs in US top 20 have expenses around $150,000..
I don't want to apply to university outside top 20.

This looks daunting..PLz help...

University Selection

There are two categories of applicants applying to B-Schools.

Category I : This category includes all those, who want to attend list of specific schools only, if admitted. If you belong to this category, you can apply in the current year to only those schools and no need to apply to safety schools. If dinged, next year again you need to assess whether you still belong to category I.

Category II: This category includes all those, who want to get into MBA in some specific intake. In our case, its Fall 2008. If you belong to this category, you need combination of reach, pragmatic and safe schools.

I belong to category II. After having completed 4 years of work experience and still one more year to go, I can not waste more than a year into my current job.

I have to get in for fall 2008 intake.
When I go through those threads on BW- Forums (Ask Alex,Ask Sandy,etc..), every after 1-2 posts I find profile similar to mine.

Indian / IT/ Male / Age 26 / GMAT - 710. (This is exactly wot my profile is)

The applicant pools can be classified into following major categories :

1) Techies
2) Bankers
3) Consultants
4) Poets (This includes all those who have unique backgrounds such as professional dancer working in media company etc etc...) ** This is the term I first read in book "Snapshots from the Hell" -- account of B-school life written by Stanford alum. **

Because of the growing diversity considerations accross all top universities, I will have to go through rough ride in top universities.

I have decent EC but less community involvement. I am going to do something very actively in community service area too.

There are two career lines I have thought of as of now:
1) Range of finance careers such as IB, HF, PE, IM.
2) Tech consulting in Financial services practice in firms such as Accenture, Deloitte, Mckinsey etc.
I will need to narrow down (atleast for application purpose).

As of now I have very strong techno-functional profile. I mean good knowledge in domains such as derivatives, Capital Markets, Fixed income etc..along with technology.

Finally, considering all factors above, I have shortlisted following universities.

US:

1)NYU - Stern
2)U of VA - Darden
3)UNC - Kenan Flagler.

Asia

4)ISB - Hyderabad
5)NUS - Singapore

I intend to apply to all universities in Round 1.
I will post my detailed plan soon.

H1-B Lottery... Will I get it ?

On friday last week, I visited visa office(I-Flex's internal) to know the status of my H1 B petition. Still the status shown was "Awaiting Approval". This keeps my hope of getting H1B petition approved alive. I saw a lot of people with rejects too. I was happy for not being in the list of rejects.

This was my 3rd visit to visa office to know the status.I got the same disappointing answer this time as well. This is the similar to getting waitlisted at university you desparately want to attend. I know that lottery results are out. But still We are not getting the results. There could be various reasons behind this delay in disclosure. Appraisal results are due in July first week and that could be one of the reasons for the delay. I am expecting to know the status latest by July 2nd week.

There are lot of opportunities in the US for H1 holders in i-flex as of now. Infact, I happened to interview some people for positions in Warren, NJ and Tampa, FL. If my H1 gets approved,I would get opportunity to travel to US post this Oct.
This would not only help me gain some international work experience but also open opportunity for potential campus visits. That way I would be able to see the corporate as well as student life closely...

However, even if my H1-B doesn't get selected in lottery, I wont be in as bad a situation as currently graduating students would be.

Check this out:

BW: Visa Squeez for international students


Article in Harvard Crimson

This is a severe problem. I hope some or the other solution will come out.
Currently keeping my fingures crossed...Wait and watch for H1-B..

What to do in 2 years at B-School ?

I am regular reader of business week forums,in particular Alex Chu's posts.
Alex is arguably the best admission consultant I have seen on the board. I would like to quote his very good post here.

Q : You were talking to your younger bro who's headed to a top school, and he asks, how do i make the most out of these two years, what would you say ?

A:
Just make the most of the time you're there by focusing on things you can't do if you're working full-time. Cherish every day that you're not working. Consider it a privilege and blessing that you're basically taking a 2-year sabbatical. You didn't spend upwards of $150K and $150 - 300K in forgone salary to sit alone in your room and read books and do problem sets (if that were the case, you'd just get an online degree). Get fully involved in your b-school community. Learn from people - focus your efforts and time on group projects, stay awake in class discussions, go to as many guest speaker events/student conferences you can go to (you'll learn more from these speakers/alums/industry folk than you'll ever learn in the classroom), get involved in the fun clubs where you'll actually make real relationships (i.e. you'll make far stronger relationships playing basketball with your classmates than doing mock interviews for finance internships). In short, enjoy the journey and process of those 2 years - because the real value isn't the "goal" of finding a job or a post-MBA career, the real value is those actual 2 years itself where you'll grow both professionally and personally in ways that you won't when you are working full-time - simply because you are meeting all kinds of people you'd normally won't meet, having the time and opportunity to do things you'd normally won't do (skydiving, traveling with fellow classmates, playing more sports, getting involved in theater, etc.) and simply having 2 years of life where you're not working. In other words, you're not buying a "career" with your MBA, but you're buying 2 years of life away from an employer who would otherwise own you for those two years if you weren't in b-school. It's 2 years that you're buying to focus on YOU, and nothing else. In fact, it's not even 2 years - it's really only 16 months of actual school (8 months of class, then 4 months internship, then 8 months of class) so time goes by very quickly.

There's nothing real specific to do, since everyone is different, but it's all about having a healthy attitude towards the experience. Spending those 2 years on your own terms the way you want it.

The other thing is to be aware of the herd mentality. It happens at every b-school, and has happened since the dawn of time. Don't let classmates influence your career choices, what electives you should take, where you live, etc. MBAs as a group are by nature a neurotically insecure bunch -- as a group, they will cluster around and lionize what is "hot" more than what is right for them as individuals. If you can spot the hype, that's half the battle. If something sounds too good to be true, it is -- MBAs are easily suckered into believing anything so long as the prospect of money and exclusivity is high (i.e. making lots of money in an area that would be the envy of other MBAs). B-school is kind of like an ant colony actually, except there is no queen ant so all the worker ants are left to following each other. Be your own man (or woman).

Other than that, don't eat yellow snow, drink lots of water before you go to bed if you're drunk, and always know the name of the person you wake up next to.


Alex Chu
www.mbaapply.com
alex@mbaapply.com
The MBA Field Guide (sample essays and more)

Educate yourself from MIT, Princeton, Berkeley

I felt like posting few links out here.

Following are the sites where lot of archived video lectures can be found. The lectures are available on diverse areas and are immensely useful.

Princeton
http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/

MIT
http://mitworld.mit.edu/video_index.php

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html (Open Courseware)

Berkeley

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/index.html

Royal Society - UK

http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=3093

Enjoy !!!

Application Resources -- What am I using ?

I have been doing a lot of research post GMAT on other areas such as various options post MBA,university selection, resources to use for applications.

First let me write more about the resources I will be using during the application process.

1) Business Week Forums and MBA Insider.
2) How to Get into top MBA program -- by Richard Montauk.
3) Your MBA Game plan -- by Omari Bouknight.
4) Vault's Career bible
5) Lot of other current year's bloggers the current students at university etc.

As of now, I dont plan to consult any of the admission consultants.
Admission Consultants charge exhorbitant fees, and they are not very helpful.
I will rather rely on free advice that these consultants (Alex, Sandy, Michael) provide on business week forums.

Any suggestions ?